Topic: Title IX - Gender Discrimination
Senator: Biden
Date: SEPTEMBER 13, 2005
Contents
BIDEN: Next question. You know, I find it fascinating, this whole thing about Title IX, and whether or not -- by Title IX, you and I know what we're talking about, but for the public at large who really has an interest in all this as well, the issue was whether or not, when a student gets aid, whether or not it only goes to the admissions piece of it.
Now, you said something that was accurate, but I don't think fulsome, to Senator Kennedy. And correct me if I'm wrong. You said: Look, we were arguing that it did apply, Title IX did apply. If a student got aid, it applied to the university.
That was one of the questions, whether or not you have no application or a narrow application.
BIDEN: And you argued that it should apply to the admissions process.
But there's a second issue in that case, and the second issue is: Do you apply it narrowly only to an admissions policy, or do you apply it to if they are discriminating in dormitories?
I got your answer on the first part: You thought it should apply, at least narrowly.
Were you arguing that it should apply broadly?
And this was before -- let me make it clear.
The district court -- I say to my friends because I had forgotten this, the district court had ruled that this only applies to admissions. And there was a question -- the chairman of Reagan's commission on civil rights said, "We should get in on the side of the plaintiff here and we should appeal this to the Supreme Court or to a higher court and say, 'No, no. This applies across the board; this applies if you don't put money in sports programs, you don't put money in dormitories, et cetera.'"
What was your position on Reagan's civil rights chairman, Clarence Pendleton, suggesting that we appeal the decision of the circuit court, narrowly applying it only to the admissions office?
ROBERTS: Senator, I was a staff lawyer. I didn't have a position.
The administration had a position, and the administration's position was the two-fold position that you set forth. First, Title IX applies. Second, it applies to the office, the admissions office...
BIDEN: Only to the office, right? It applies narrowly?
SPECTER: Now, wait a minute. Let him finish his answer, Senator Biden.
BIDEN: His answers are misleading, with all due respect.
SPECTER: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
SPECTER: Now, wait a minute, wait a minute.
They may be misleading, but they are his answers.
BIDEN: OK, fine.
SPECTER: You may finish, Judge Roberts.
BIDEN: Fire away. Fire away.
At least I'm misunderstanding your answer.
ROBERTS: With respect, they are my answers. And, with respect, they're not misleading, they're accurate.
BIDEN: I have a minute, 45 seconds.
ROBERTS: This is a (inaudible) dispute that was 20-some years ago. The effort was to interpret what this body, Congress, meant.
The administration position was: federal financial aid triggers coverage; it's limited to the admissions office. The United States Supreme Court agreed on both counts, and so I would say that the administration correctly interpreted the intent of Congress in enacting that legislation.
BIDEN: Well, let me read you what wrote in that memo. You said you, quote, "strongly agreed."
Now, when my staff sends me a memo saying, "Senator, I recommend you do the following, and I strongly agree," that usually is a pretty good indication what they think.
Now, maybe they don't. Maybe they just like to use the word "strongly." They said "strongly agreed," usually means they agree, number one.
Number two, you went on to say, and I quote, that if you have the broad interpretation, quote, "the federal government will be rummaging," quote, "willy-nilly through institutions."
BIDEN: So you expressed not only that you strongly agreed, but you thought that if you gave them this power to broadly interpret it to apply to dormitories and all these other things, that they'd rummage willy-nilly through institutions.
Seems to me you had a pretty strong view back then. Maybe you don't have it now.
ROBERTS: And the Supreme Court's conclusion was that that administration position was a correct reading of the law that this body passed.
So if the view was strongly held, it was because I thought that was a correct reading of the law. The Supreme Court concluded that it was a correct reading of the law.
BIDEN: Thanks, Judge.
ROBERTS: Thank you, Senator.
SPECTER: Thank you very much, Senator Biden.
We will recess now until 2:15.
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